RESOURCES
- Buy the book “Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill” on Amazon
- Shop “Udos Choice” Here: udoschoice.com
- Visit Udo Erasmus’ website udoerasmus.com
- Watch this episode on YouTube
- Listen to this episode on iTunes
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 – INTRO SNIP
02:34 – The concept of “life extension”
03:05 – What is Health?
04:30 – What is life?
07:17 – How does the sun’s solar energy get converted into life?
10:38 – How God talks to us and do we listen?
14:40 – Where does heartache come from?
16:22 – What does it mean to “Walk in the Spirit”?
19:45 – What is the definition of nutrition and how much does it have to do with diet?
20:26 – What are the elements and components that make human health?
22:05 – What went wrong with the food supply?
25:18 – What is the purpose of life?
27:50 – How related are poor diet and psychological problems?
31:50 – What are the standards for “real food”
32:32 – How do you get free probiotics?
34:47 – what probiotic can help prevent colon problems?
35:31 – where do probiotics come from in nature?
36:20 – where do digestive enzymes come from?
48:14 – What are Essential Nutrients?
51:13 – how are oils and their nutrients damaged?
54:50 – how do you prevent your supplemental oils from going rancid?
57:25 – what happens when you have too many omega 3 oils and not enough omega 6?
58:24 – why is there controversy about seed oils?
TRANSCRIPT
My view is, if I was the benevolent dictator of this planet, I would make stillness time, a requisite for everybody.
You are listening to the Dr. Haley Show, the podcast dedicated to helping you optimize your health. Each episode there will be an interview or a message to help you discover better health. We will be featuring health radicals on the show to bring new ideas to the table, as well as doubling down on key fundamentals to support you living your best life.
Your host is no other than the founder of Haley Nutrition Dr. Michael Haley.
You’re listening to the Dr. Haley Show podcast. And I’m Dr. Michael Haley, your show host. Today’s guest, Udo Erasmus, who I was just having a wonderful conversation with already really needs no introduction. He’s, well, the founder of Udo’s Choice Premium Nutritional Supplements, which we’re going to talk a little bit about today. He’s the author of a few books including
Fats That Heal and Fats That Kill, which has sold over 250,000 copies.
He’s well studied and biochemistry, biology, nutrition. And I think this is the cool, coolest part. Has a master’s in counseling psychology, which I think is fascinating. I want to really talk about how that works with nutrition and how they work hand-in-hand. Udo, thank you so much for joining me today. We were already into a good discussion here. I thought, man, I gotta stop.
I’m going to have to do an introduction here where I love talking with you. I should just shut up and just it’d be my best podcast if I don’t say another word. And just like you go, well, you share the stage with people like Anthony Robbins and Deepak Chopra and you know, you’ve been teaching for decades now.
Like it’s been a long time. Yeah, that’s why I look so old. I’m 82, actually. And that’s fantastic. You know. And that brings up an interesting point. I want to talk about your age and how things have changed over the years, because food was a lot different when you were growing up. And. Well, also, you know, we were talking about life and life extensions.
Can we extend our life or can we only influence how we live? I think of have you ever heard of Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw? Yeah. Yeah, which I talked to. They both passed. I talked to recently in the last few years, but the whole concept of life extension was, what can I do today to be younger tomorrow?
And I don’t know, maybe there are definitely things we can do. I don’t know if we can extend our life. Maybe we can just live better. Why we here. I don’t know what do you think. My, my thing.
I’m working now on two projects. One is to turn total health into a teachable field based in nature and human nature.
Because we have never done that. We’ve been here for 200,000 years, and we’ve never created a real field of health. You know, our health care system is a disease management system.
and when I went to I took a year of medicine, by the way, you know, and I went to I because I wanted to know what health is.
That’s called health care. So I want to know what health is I thought I could help a lot of people if I could push them in the direction of health, but I’d have to know where health was, what health is, what it is. So that’s why I went into medicine talk to the dean. I said, I’m only learning about disease.
What’s health? He said, we don’t know we’re working on it, but it but they’re not even working on it because you’re still. I was focused on disease. Right. So it’s a disease management system. And I wanted to know what health is. And it has. So I’m doing so total health based in nature and human nature. And then the other one is human nature as a teachable field.
Because, here we are. We don’t know what we are. We don’t know what the pieces are. You know, we know we got a liver and a and a, you know, a tailbone and, you know, stuff like that. Right? But in terms of what is a human being because there’s awareness is an issue and life energy is an issue.
You know, I studied biology. I wanted to know what life is. We never found out what life is in biology. You know, it’s biology means study of life. And I always thought we were going to end up with a beaker of something liquid and shining at some point, and we said, wow, there’s life. You know, that’s I really wanted to know what life is.
I came
out of a war. So
I was always like looking for something better than war. Right. So we studied form and function. So it’s not like we didn’t learn about the structure that life built. But we never got on life. When we did chemistry we talked about the molecules that carry energy like ATP or creatine phosphate or all of that.
Right. We never
actually
got a handle
on the energy. And I said to my lab partner one time, you know, so you we should study ourselves. This is like very precinct for me of me. I was like 18 maybe. Right. So we should study ourselves because we have form and function and life all together.
we don’t have to kill ourselves to get to know it because
we’re here.
Right? So we just have to tune in. So this is like my,
lab partners
eyes glassed over and he I don’t know, he totally didn’t get what I was talking about. And well, so, you know, for me, it’s too big to really comprehend because imagine that we got so knowledgeable that we could somehow create a cell by, you know, working on such a microscopic level where we could arrange all the atoms in the right place and knit them together to make the mitochondria and your cell wall and all of these little things.
If we could somehow knit all the atoms together, put them in the right place, what makes them alive? What gives them life? I mean, have you ever figured out the answer to that question. Yeah. Tell me. Well first of all why would you want to do a stupid thing like that and spend all the money and time on that when you’re surrounded by, by cells that have already been made for you, including
60 trillion in your own body.
Right.
so that’s
one issue. So why would you want to invent life? That’s just an arrogant ego trip I think. Right. I completely agree with you. And so. So what is it? Well, this planet is run on solar energy right? Everything that’s alive solar energy is what made the, you know, first, nutrients, so to speak.
You know, everything, all the energy, all that that is all the chemical reactions and all of that. Yeah,
but I’m taking it a little bit different. So solar energy at the sun the temperature is 15,000,000°C. Pretty hot right. So and then it radiates out in all directions. And some of it it’s filtered through 93 million miles of space.
And then it’s filtered through Earth’s atmosphere. And then it’s filtered through green plants, mostly. And the fraction of solar energy that remains activates electrons. They then bond together to make molecules, and that solar energy fraction is stored in the bonds in those molecules. We eat those as food. Or when we were in our mother’s womb, mother ate those for food in the cells, those bonds get broken, the solar energy fraction is released, and now we call it life.
And that’s solar energy fraction is
it’s nature is unconditional, empowering love for the body. It is the it is all powerful in the body. It is everywhere present in the body. So omnipresent, omnipotent and all knowing in the body because it runs through the body and runs everything on every level, every chemical reaction. There’s like a trillion or 100 billion chemical reactions in your body every second, and you have 60 trillion cells, and that solar energy fraction runs all of that.
Okay. You’re using words
that. Some people would say that describes God. Yeah, well, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient is one of the definitions of God. Yeah. Or spirit. And I had an experience, you know, when I because I was really looking for what is the essence of everything. I had some very powerful personal spiritual experiences. And that’s this comes this understanding comes from one of those experiences.
And then I started thinking about it. And then I said to the, well, what? What is that? But what is spirit? Because why did I go into psychology? It’s the study of soul. I thought, so it might be something meaningful, but I didn’t know because we weren’t religious. And but I’d heard the word and we didn’t study soul in psychology.
We studied thoughts, beliefs and emotions. No soul. So no health in biology, no soul in psychology. In in theology, you don’t get to see God. So no God in theology, right. And, and, and then no health in medicine, like, okay. Right. We’re all being misled by what we’re told. We’re being taught. If we really take them, take them at their word.
And so I thought that’s why it’s up to me. I have to now build this field of health and energy, that energy, that life energy is one big piece. Awareness’s involved, life energy is involved. Inspiration is the shine of that energy into the world. That unconditional, empowering love into the world by the way, that energy that is life is also the master within you.
So we’re going we’re going there again, right? It’s also the CEO.
it’s also the benevolent dictator. It’s also your resident expert about your life and how to live it, and what choices to make in the trench where you live. Right. And I agree. And I talk about these things a lot. And it’s thing that you and it’s the only true leader for your life.
not somebody in Washington, not somebody in Ottawa. For me, in my case, no, the leader lives here because. But sometimes we don’t follow the leader. No, we don’t. And the truth is to really get to know that you have to spend time quietly in stillness by yourself. Bring your focus into the space your body occupies. Because how else would you get to know yourself if you don’t ever spend time with yourself and examine and explore and discover?
You know, it’s like you look at the you look at the mirror. You only see your surface.
but who are you in your heart? Who are you in your being? Right? So and so. My view is,
if I was the benevolent dictator of this planet, I would make stillness time, a requisite for everybody. And if we all love that you’re talking about this,
I love that you’re talking about this. I’ve talked about it on several podcasts, but never quite in this phraseology, where you’re just looking at it from a different perspective. And it makes sense. It totally makes sense. I mean, if you think about it, every blade of grass, every cell in the body is its own leader or has its own leader inside.
You don’t have to, you know, there’s not a cell
in your shoulder blade that tells the cell in your toe how it should live its life. Right? Cells understand that
they’re motivated from within. Right. And they share. But their motivation,
their focus is with it. And our focus is always outside or in our head, pretty much.
Right. And that’s part of the human journey. But when you were in your mother’s womb, there was no place to go and nothing to do, and everything was taken care of. And it was, like, pretty safe. So where was your focus? I had no place to go, so it was at rest inside in its source. Where is its source?
Well, the focus source is awareness and then life, which is energy. So the senses monitor energy. So your focus goes to monitoring changes in energy after you’re born. Because now you have to figure out how to survive. And so you’re automatically attracted to changes in your environment with your senses by five kind of energy right. Light sound feeling taste smell.
Right. So you’re monitoring the environment because you need that to survive. Because you have to every time something changes. What. Oh is that friend. Is that foe, So do I go near it. Do I approach it or do I run or do I ignore it because it’s irrelevant to my survival? So you get really good at that. And every time something changes, you know,
if I do a talk and I can be very animated and I can be very interesting and inspired, maybe even charismatic, right.
And then, you know, it’s the side door
in the room opens and somebody walks in. I lose my entire audience instantly. Anybody who can see that door out of the corner of their eye, they immediately go like that. And then, you know, then they say, okay, it’s okay. And then they come back, right? So that’s how powerful that survival instinct is.
So we learned that and so but what we didn’t do, you know what happened in that process. Our focus went from being present inside absent outside. Now more and more it’s present outside. Absent inside. We got disconnected from inside. That’s where heartache began. That’s where heartache began. And heartache is triggered by lots of things that we tried to substitute for.
Feeling whole, right? But the trigger is not the cause. The cause is our original disconnection from ourselves that led to discontent, that became our driving force for everything we do. But that is actually in its essence, the heart calling you to come home inside to where you actually live. Right. Yeah. So that would be the second thing I would do is benevolent dictator.
I would make it clear to people what heartache is.
You try to
get your wholeness out there somewhere when your wholeness was already in you, waiting for you, but you were not focused on it. And that disconnection leads to discontent. And discontent is just another word for heartache. And it’s an uneasy, uncomfortable feeling in your chest.
You know, when somebody disappoints you or
your girlfriend dumps you unceremoniously or whatever, right? Each one of these things is a whole separate, not only podcast but course. Yeah. And book and the thing is library of the thing is we’ve been here for 200,000 years and we have never got a handle on it other than some people like Buddha and Krishna, who were the teachers of human nature in one on one way to describe them.
And Christ. Right. They were teachers of human nature. They took time alone. They spent time with themselves. They discovered the
beauty and magnificence and divinity inside. And they talked from that experience to that experience in other people
And they all said, we all have the same stuff inside of us, right? And they and then if people were interested in that energy or that experience, then they hung out with these people and, you know, they got maybe got hints of how they could also live like that, like, oh, yeah, I don’t think that’s unique to just the small handful, though.
I think there’s a lot of people that are, I’ll say, walking in the spirit. But yeah. And. Well, yeah. And I’m not trying to limit it either because they all said, yeah, you all have that in you. You know, when Christ says what you have done to one of the least of these that you have done for me, I could only understand that as, oh, I mean, everybody.
Right. And yeah, that’s these are I’m just talking right now about the famous ones. Right. But they’re. Yeah, yeah. The point is it’s possible for everyone you don’t know. Your mailman might be one of those people. He’s delivering the mail, but he might be one of those people inside. Right. So. Well, I perceive you’re one of those people.
So. And I know. Yes, I’m a definitely a student
of that particular interest because it’s about life, which is well, which is a humble response. Yeah. You know, and that’s okay. That’s good. That’s more evidence of the fact. Well then I’m going to get got to be really smart. So yeah, it takes one to know one.
Well thank you.
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I want to jump into, some of your education
and some definitions and, a little bit of how all this works together. For instance, I’ll give you my definition first, and then ask you to expound on it.
Or what? How do you look at it? When we look at nutrition, the definition of nutrition, I would say that, well, what you eat is your diet. That’s not your nutrition. It’s your diet. Your nutrition is really like blood chemistry, chemistry within your body that is changed by more than just what you eat. You can think and change your chemistry or your nutrition.
You can rest. And when you’re resting, your nutrition is changing. And as you’re exercising your chemistry, your nutrition within you is changing. So what would you say nutrition is so I, I look at it a
little bit different, but pretty much comes out the same. So I just told you about the three parts of human nature that get neglected the most.
So awareness, life energy and inspired purpose. Okay. Which is the shine of, of life into the world and it’s positive. It’s the positive mind. It’s the visionary. It’s the thing. How can I help that kind of thing? Then there’s the body made from food, water and air made for activity. So food and fitness, everybody talks about food, fitness.
So
I downplay that a little bit sometimes. Then there’s protective mind. And that’s the survival smarts that because you live in you know the one that your senses get drawn to. Is this a danger. Gee, is this something that is good for me? So that’s protective mind then outside of that is your social group and that’s who you hang out with, right?
And then outside of that is your natural environment. That’s where all your resources come from. But there’s also some danger there. So
you got to be grateful for it, but you also got to be respectful of it. And then it’s the big picture, which is an infinite universe in which our body is a terminal condition.
Right now, you have to give each one of those if you want to be totally healthy, that you have to give each one of those. It’s due because each one of those has a different nature, a different function needs a different kind of attention on a regular basis, goes off in a different way in response to a different kind of intervention.
That’s sort of the overview of
the picture of total health. Yes. The body is made out of food, water and air. That’s all the building blocks. They always came from nature until we got civilized. And then we fried them and we did things to them and took some out. And you added stuff in that never existed in nature, you know.
And then we changed it. And maybe now some are food is
not nutrition anymore. So, you know, highly processed is the ultra processed foods and now getting a lot of attention. Yeah. So there’s you can’t you know,
if you get out of line with any one of these parts
and your nature, you’re going to pay a price in health because everything affects your health.
So who you talk to, how you think you know, you can think yourself sick. There’s no question in my mind that I’ve sometimes thought myself sick and you know it. You know it because when you get really upset, frustrated,
and then your mind is going a mile a minute,
you don’t really feel that good, and health and health feels good.
You know, if you want to make it really simple, what is health? Health is when you feel good, right?
even if your body is dying and you feel good. Because that’s also possible, because life energy is not affected by anything that ails your body, and that awareness is not affected by anything that ails your body. So you have perfect health.
I call life energy perfect health. You never get sick, never dies, right? Formless to begin with, you can’t destroy something that has no form, right? So life energy is perfect health and you can have perfect health while your body is sick because your body is subject to change
and damage and destruction. Right? Interesting. But your life energy is completely unaffected by that.
So then if somebody says, you know, oh,
you have a cast on and somebody says, oh, what’s your problem? I don’t have a problem, but my body’s got a problem because I’m not the body either. Right? Because I am actually life. Right. Yeah. And so, so life, you know, because if I say to you, hey, whose body is that?
You know, most people would say, oh, that’s my body. If you say, this is my body, you’ve just said, you’re not the body. You’ve just said you’re the owner of the body, and the body is your property. Well, we never think about that, but we actually know. So then you say, well, who are you as the owner of the body?
Well, I don’t know. Isn’t life is. Doesn’t life own your body? Well, yeah, life owns the body. Well, your life. How well do you know yourself as the owner of the body? Not so much. Because I never pay attention. Right? That’s how we live. That’s why the world is so crazy. Because we’re so crazy
in not getting fully present in our being where we feel content in peace, completely cared for.
Right. And then
when you do the stillness practice and you do tap into that, well, then it’s like, okay, well what now? What is the purpose of my life? There’s nothing left to do, other than to help. How can I help? What needs to be done? How can I make the biggest splash for good in the time I have in this body?
And that’s so the whole. Your purpose changes. Because before you feel content, your purpose is always. How can extract something for myself out of whatever it is that I’m going to do, right? Because I’m hoping that if I do it well, then
will feel taken care of. But it never happens. You get three days of celebration and then that same ache is back, because it never fulfilled your heart.
Because
the fulfillment of the heart is an inside job, not an outside job.
Yeah. When we were, I guess teasing each other a little bit. And when you said takes one to know one. And I was, you know, telling you your humility in which was the evidence of who you are in my mind, I’m thinking, this guy is not here for any self gain. You know, I see it in you.
You’re there to help others. And yes, when we do that, we do know there is an exchange. I, as I help others, you know, I get to, live on and there is an exchange that helps me survive, whether it’s in finances or in receiving
the love, the vitamin L for the people that I’m giving to.
Yeah. So but the purpose is to help others and. Yeah, the purpose. Yeah. The purpose is to shine. Yeah. Because
that’s what we are by nature. And the shine is the is to help. How can I help? You know, it’s like I help people all the time. Do people I don’t know, I’m just meet them
on the street.
You know, they’re turning the map upside down and looking around and I say, oh
where do you want to go? Right. They say, oh, where are you from? Oh they’re some, some tourist from somebody. Right. And then sometimes I’ll walk to them, walk with them to where they want to go. Just because I can.
It’s kind of fun. And it always feels good here that to help a little bit. You know, I always feels bad here when you hurt people. I’m sure.
And if it doesn’t, there’s something wrong. We’re
built like that.
that’s our nature. Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about psychology. Yeah. And counseling. Because when we look at people with certain challenges, whether it’s, whether autism or whether, you know, just not clear thinking or, low mood.
Yeah. Depression. How much found? Yeah. How much have you found a connection between nutrition and that.
there is a connection between nutrition and that I think there’s pretty good research on that. If you eat more, plant based, you tend to have a mellower mood, for instance, that’s there’s research on that. I didn’t think that you were going to ask that question, but because, but when you do counseling and this is not what I learned in psychology, but when you do counseling, the first place where I would start is say, okay, you’re anxious, you’re depressed, you’re not feeling right, but there’s something in you that is completely whole, completely
okay, completely filled with love. Give that equal time, that first find it, but first, first, believe me, that it’s there in you, even if you’re not experiencing. Second,
give yourself some time to find it and instead of talking about your worry, thoughts, look for that thing. Take time to look for that in you. And then third, when you find it, then cultivate it and then give equal time to what you need to do out here, that’s not going the way
you
want to control it because you can’t control it because that’s the world of change, that’s its nature.
And recognize at the same time that things are changing in your mind, in your body, in your emotions,
in your social group and in your environment. Something in you called peace, love, inspiration and gratitude. Maybe you could call it for the big picture. Those are never changing. They’re always there no matter what’s going on in the world of change, those will always be your foundation.
And if you don’t put some time into experiencing your foundation, then you’re living without foundation. What do you expect to have when you live without foundation?
you don’t have a stable point. Well, yeah. Then everything is going to be all over the map. Yeah. Right. So now I’m talking more about self cure, you know, because what we do is we try to move to mental words around.
But in, in the east, in the eastern psychology they say mind is the problem. And you want to transcend the mind. You want to get out of the mind. You want to get into the place in you that has no problem ever. Because that place is always in you to. So why aren’t you giving? That’s some time. It’s so interesting because it’s almost like.
And you’re doing it again in that you’re explaining what I’ve tried to explain, but you’re putting it in such better terminology. I’m going to have to listen to this podcast
a couple times to drive it home. If there’s a nutritional problem and you’re listening to that higher knowledge, you’re going to be led to the correction, the nutritionally, you well, you might not because some of those people died of cancer because they didn’t pay attention to their to eating.
And my view is, you know, you need to eat in line with nature because health, physical health was invented by nature as an adaptation for, a limited survival in the natural system. So all the building blocks for body construction came out of nature water, air, food. Right. And the food was fresh, whole, raw, organic, local, and probably for, for human beings, more plant based and animal based because animals ran away and fought you know, plants don’t run away and don’t fight back.
They’re easy to hunt down and kill, even if you’re a hunter with nothing but rocks. Right. So,
if you want to live longer because you’re doing everything else right, then part of it is, how do I live in line with nature and just. No, there are some people who live like that.
I’m. I pay attention to that.
I eat mostly plant based, mostly raw, mostly organic. Right. And I, I ferment my own, nuts and seeds, you know, with probiotics, because I have a probiotics called Super Bifido Plus very, very high dose. I just put a capsule into water and like a, like a glass bowl, fill it with water, put the nuts in.
I want to soak them anyway because
it softens them up, makes them easy to digest. Right. And then I put in a couple of, capsules of those probiotics, and I put
a plate on top of it and just let it sit there and then I and then it gets fermented.
That’s very nice. I really like it. And then
when it runs down, I add water and add more food and the same probiotics are continuing to do fermentation. So I get free probiotics to out of that. I’m a big fan of it. Yeah. Yes. And I love fermented foods and making our own you know, I don’t.
Have you heard of fire cider? I know the name. I’m not sure that I know what it is. Okay. It’s not necessarily fermented, but I think it is. I recently made a batch of it. You take all your favorite herbs, the spicy things, the things that really have a lot of color and aroma and flavor. Yeah. They’re fermented.
They’re fermented ginger. Use turmeric. Yeah. Garlic. Yeah. Onion. I use them all. Beets. Chop them all up. And the recipe would say, okay, now when you chop all of those things up, stuff them into a jar and fill it up with apple cider vinegar and then leave it on your counter for about a month. I’ve done that too.
I, I use, I would imagine it ferments. It does, I’ve done that. But I’ve but I’ve been tempted to open up the capsule and dump it in there as a starter. Yeah, yeah. That works. Why not works. I haven’t tried it with, adding a starter to it. Well, yeah. I mean, you got to get it somewhere.
You can get it out of the apple cider vinegar because that’s got
live fermenting bacteria in it. Right. But you can also do it with live bacteria if they’re live like, my probiotics are refrigerated. So they’re, you know, they tend to die on the shelf. So I only get, probiotics refrigerated, and I have a line of them.
And that one is the one for old guys, because bifido the bacteria decrease, when you get older in your colon, and that’s associated not necessarily cause, but associated with a whole bunch of colon problems that people get as they get older. So I don’t have any I’m 82. I have no colon problems. why probiotics. And let’s compare this, you know, to the times of Jesus.
He didn’t take probiotics, right. Yeah. Okay. So, well, I don’t know. I wasn’t there. That was one of my issues when I started trying to figure out what his message was. Right. I think he I think he took probiotic was, I was, 2000 years late. Too late to the party. So anyway, so probiotics. So goes like this.
Where do
probiotics come from in nature while they’re in the fermenting layer
of leaves and grass and whatever’s on top of the soil when you’re not turning it over. So this is before agriculture. And in that top layer are the probiotics. And when a plant pushes through the soil, the soil bacteria, which are rot bacteria which turn over dead matter, well,
they get stripped back into the soil and the plant picks up the probiotics.
And when a deer comes and eats the grass, it gets probiotics in its mouth with every mouthful of grass. Because they cover the grass. Okay, so now what we do, we get our whatever we get, we cook it, you kill all the probiotics. Well, then you should replace them. So this is how I think about it, right? The same with digestive enzymes.
There are enzymes in foods that when you chew those foods up raw and you chew them well, you break down cells, the enzymes are released, they start to digest the food for you in your mouth. Already. And
the research says about, on average, 60% of the food well chewed eaten raw self digests the food for you and some for some foods like pineapple.
It’s like 90%. And for some foods it’s like 10%, but average about 60. So that means that that’s more than half of the digest. And for you, if you live in line with nature. So when we cook those foods, we destroy
those enzymes. So we should replace them to. Right. And if you don’t do that, then what you end up doing when you cook your food, you give your body more than twice as much digestive work to do.
Then it was intended to do, because in nature it was intended to eat raw. Right? Yeah. And that’s going to catch up with you then. That’s going to tie up your immune system, because the immune system first job is to make sure that digestion is complete and all its other jobs come after that, because everything you eat has to be completely digested, because it’s all foreign material that would make you sick if you absorbed it and digest it.
So then the immune system has to get involved in digestion, and then it’s not as free to go after all the other things it needs to do. So you take
a load off your digestive system, which then frees the immune system. If you replace the enzymes that you destroyed when your fruits were cut. That was the reason why I put that together, because I’m always thinking as well, how was it in nature before we got so bloody civilized?
Right. And Udo, I want to make sense of some of this and then talk about your products a little bit and how you address these issues with it. And the reason I said I think Jesus had probiotics. It was, written, use a little wine for your stomach. And your frequent and fermented wine was not pasteurized because pasteurization hasn’t been born by that time
So it was a live probiotic, right? Yeah, it would have. And I think that’s why the scripture specifically said for your stomach and your frequent infirmities. Okay. Yeah. The best, the best class I ever had on enzymes. Doctor Andrea Hazim going back about 30 years ago. She made a bowl of oatmeal for this class, and she opened up some fruit and vegetable powder that had digestive enzymes in it.
And we watched this cooked oatmeal liquefy in the bowl. And I’m guessing the enzyme amylase was breaking down the starches in the oatmeal. And as it breaks off, it makes it, you know, water, probably a hydrogen and an O H on the other side of each, you know, as it’s breaking apart. And we just saw it liquefied. Yeah.
And then you have, you know, oats like that which, which I have done, you actually what, what is left is the cellulose or the fiber, the fiber structure of the oat, you know, or the oat flake. Right. And you can actually taste and feel it in your mouth.
it’s really cool. Oh, yeah. Actually. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, it’s funny, you remind me of a scripture where, you know, Jesus walking with his disciples through the fields, plucking the grains which an oat grow is essentially a grain. And,
we have them all dead and chopped up and killed instead of dealing with the life of those. Right? Yeah, but yes, I I’ve eaten them raw from the oat grow before being rolled and crushed and killed and chopped and yes, you can.
Yeah. There’s probiotics on oats too, if you don’t strain with pesticides
and you grow them without turning
the soil over too much, you know, because the plow was invented later than that. Right.
so what people did is they now they’re people are going back to it. They put mulch on top of the, the on top of the soil.
Then they dig holes in the mulch, put the plants in, and the plants are always growing and the mulch is fermenting. Right.
so they’re getting probiotics on their food provided they don’t mess with it. All right. So
we made it more convenient. But we paid a price for that. And maybe we don’t need to pay that price.
And it’s not that inconvenient
to grow without tillage.
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Your word choices are really cool when you talk about the mulch fermenting, because we think of it as just decaying. But what is the well, no, the decay happens in the soil. The ferment happens on top of the soil. You have to pay attention to what’s actually going on, and not just trip in your head and make it up right, right.
this is cool. So
what was the first supplement you created and why? I started with the oils. Because I when my marriage broke up, was early in my crazy years
when I was still poisoned by my own testosterone. So I was very, very upset when my marriage broke up and I took a job as a pesticide sprayer because I wanted to kill something.
And pesticides are made to kill things. So I was spraying pesticides. I was very careless for three years I did that, I walked barefoot over lawns. I sprayed with weed killers until the skin peeled off the bottom of my feet. And at that point I said, well, I think maybe I need to wear boots. I wore rubber boots, a bathing suit, no shirt, the summer job.
I wanted to have a tan because, you know, I’m light skinned. So I,
when I was dissatisfied, I always wanted to have brown eyes, dark skin and black hair. And I had blue eyes, light skin
and most gray hair. Right. So. And I so I like the tan that’s vanity. Right. So I’m driving the tractor and I’m being careless.
And somebody asked me, aren’t you worried you’re going to get poison? I said, nah I’m immune, I wasn’t immune. So three years later I got poisoned by the pesticide that was spraying carelessly. So then I went to the doctor and said, what do you have for pesticide poisoning? And she looked at me and said, nothing, nothing, nothing. And that what is pesticides but what is poisoning me anyway?
Oh, this. Yeah, that pesticides are brand new.
how are we going to have a treatment for that? Yeah. And that day the penny dropped for me that my health is really my responsibility. I knew that I knew it in theory, but it was like all of a sudden it became really real. And then I went to the people in the government who wrote the course that certified me as a pesticide sprayer, and I got 99.9 no, 99.5% on the exam, and I was sure they had made a mistake marking it because I knew my stuff.
So I called them and I said, are you sure you didn’t make a mistake? So he said, well, let me look it up. So he said,
how many instars in a crane fly? And I said, four. He said, well, you circle two. So. So anyway, I knew my stuff. So I
called this government agency that, that trained me in pesticide spray.
They never talked about pesticides, ever. I mean,
they never talked about poisoning by pesticides, ever. Not once. Not a word I said. Oh, can I come in and look through the literature that you must have about the toxic effects of
pesticide? They said no. I said, we say, I think you just have a flu. It’s going around and the symptoms are somewhat flu like.
So they wouldn’t let me look
in their literature. And I thought that was really unfair of them,
because that’s like you shouldn’t you be accountable for what you’re teaching and not teaching about poisons? You know, and I was stupid, you know, but so then I went to Greenpeace and then Greenpeace. I met a couple of people who had like a stack, 18 inch stack of papers on pesticide poisoning.
And I was, oh my God. And then I made my palms start to sweat. Oh my God. More than 60% of the pesticides we spray, cause cancer. Oh my God, I got cancer to look forward to. And what I happened to me is I got, cramps, nausea, dizziness. My energy was under the basement. You know, like, I was like, I have more energy now at 82 than I had at 38 when that happened, I literally, if I walked around a city block, I would
have to sit down and rest and, and then if my head turned, if I turned, my head felt like my head turned, but my brain didn’t.
Now, obviously
that’s not what happened, but that’s what it felt like.
So I started taking supplements and I started paying attention. I did some fasting, I did some sweating, and I tried a bunch of things.
And then I went in and said, well, let’s see, your body is made out of food. It’s like a food, water and air. But I was only thinking food bodies made out of food. So and you know that the body turns over
98% of the body of the atoms in your body are removed and replaced every year.
Ballpark figure. Right?
70% water. If you drink the amount of water you’re supposed to drink, you drink more than ten times your body weight in water every year. So I did the math on this stuff. It says all of it because it’s all so interesting, right? And, and so if the body turns over 98% and if something goes wrong with your body, then all you need to do is raise your standard for intake.
And if you do that, then in one year, you can have rebuilt 98% of your body to a higher standard. And the higher standard is always more in line with nature. So we’re talking about fresh water, raw, organic, in-season, locally again, right. And so then I started. Then I said okay, well
let me look at nutrition I studied biology I that’s there’s quite a bit of nutrition in biology, but I never studied nutrition.
So I went into Medline, the database of all the studies. And my topic was food and health or nutrition and health, nutrition and disease. I read everything I could get my hands on. I found about essential nutrients, well, essential nutrients, you know,
the most really important ones that your body can’t make 18 minerals, 13 vitamins, nine essential amino acids, two essential fatty acids.
And they’re, you know, you have to have a you can’t make them. You got to bring them in from outside. If you don’t do that and you don’t get enough, then your health deteriorates, literally degenerates. That means that just means you fall apart. Molecule by molecule. And, you get deficiency symptoms and they get worse with time. And if you don’t get enough long enough, you die.
So this is like the key central stuff in nutrition is the essential nutrients. Third, third part of the definition. If you’re deteriorating because you’re not getting enough of an essential nutrient. But before you die, because death by definition is not reversible. So before you die, if you bring enough back into your diet, then all the problems that come from not getting enough are reversed and you get your health back.
It’s like, wow, how cool is that? Right?
and then they also had to have identified at least one biochemical reaction in the body in which that essential nutrient is required and without which
that biochemical reaction could not take place. So it’s a very precise definition and that makes it very powerful. So then you what do you do?
Well, you optimize your intake of those 42 essential nutrients. However, you have to do that right. And if you don’t get enough in your food, well, then you take some as a supplement. So you just make sure that you optimize your intake of everything, because if you have optimum intake, then life will
give you an optimally healthy body.
If you only take minimum, then life will make you a minimal healthy body. Who would want to settle
for minimal health if they think about it right? So I got into that and then in the studies that I was doing,
I got lost in fats because it was the most confusing area.
and what really got me into fats was I read two studies once said omega six is an essential nutrient by the definition I just gave you, right?
Can’t make it. Got to have a go to get it from food. If you don’t get enough for long enough, you die. If you get it, bring it back before you die. If you get your health back, okay? Omega six is an essential nutrient. And the very next study I read, it says omega six gives you cancer and kills you.
And I’m going, what the hell is going on here? Right? I have to eat it so it can kill me. No no no . That there’s got to be something wrong with that. So I started and that contradiction drove me nuts. And I said, I must be missing something.
This cannot be right. And that got me looking into how oils are made.
And it turns out that oils
omega six, and omega three are the most sensitive of all our essential nutrients to damage by light, by oxygen, by heat. And omega six is a lot less sensitive. It’s more sensitive than any other nutrient, except for omega three. Omega three is five times more sensitive to damage by light, oxygen, and heat than omega six.
And the year after I does that. Why is that? Why those oils go rancid? Yeah, that’s why they. Yeah. If you get fish oil and you put it in the fridge, fish oil is five times more sensitive than the plant omega three. So it’s really sensitive. So you get fish oil in a glass bottle. You know you open it in less than a week.
You can smell the acidity even in the fridge. That’s how sensitive that stuff. So that means these are
the nutrients that need the most care to be protected from light, oxygen and heat. And the truth is, we give them the least care. We throw them in the frying pan, in the frying pan, they get damaged by light, oxygen and heat all at the same time.
And frying is the dumbest thing we have ever invented to do to our food. If health is to go. So I tell people, well, you got a frying pan. Of course everybody does. Right? You go get the frying pan, pull it out from wherever you keep it, turn it upside down, whack yourself upside the head with it so it’s associated with pain, and throw that stupid thing out because it’s going to kill you.
Not. Not by hitting you. Not, but by you. What you fry is funny. The research says that it’s funny if you fry or overheat carbs, starch or protein or oil. Each one of them, independent of the other, increases inflammation in your body and increases the risk of cancer. Well, yeah, if fresh, whole, raw, organic is the standard nature or God set in nature, maybe frying is really off the track here right?
I don’t remember seeing any references to frying in the scriptures.
Well, I don’t know. The big oil industry only started 150 years ago. You know, even olive oil
in Mediterranean countries was not used for frying traditionally. What they did is they cooked food in water, then they dumped the water. Then they added the oil because they liked the flavor. So I don’t like it that much. But they like the flavor.
And oils enhance flavors, natural flavors in foods. They also enhance the absorption of oil soluble nutrients in food. So it’s good to have oil with foods, but the oils need to be undamaged and the foods need to be undamaged. So. So how do you protect them in a supplement? Well, so,
I’m getting there. The year after I got poisoned, which was 1980, I got poisoned 1981.
It was established that omega threes are essential nutrients by the definition. And I found out that 99% of the population does not get enough omega three for optimum health. And I had an epiphany. I was like, oh, my God, if we could make it with health in mind and bring it back into the diet, we could help almost everybody.
Mission of, I mean, if I’m in a mission from God, it’s kind of like that, right? And so what I did is I developed a method for making oils with health in mind. And what you have to do, it’s not that complicated. What you have to do is you have to make sure that no light, no oxygen and no high temperature gets to the oil from the time it’s in the seed in nature’s packaging, which is pretty good.
They found flax seeds 5000 years old in caves in Switzerland, and they planted it. And it’s still grew that’s how good that packaging is. Seeds 5000 years old. Okay, so from the time it’s
in nature’s package through the pressing, the filtering, the settling, the filling till it’s in a brown glass bottle in a box, nitrogen flushed in the fridge in the factory.
No light, no oxygen, no heat. Get to that oil. That means you have to make a very, very tight system. So and so I understand. So I created that and, I grew up on a farm. I like to tinker, and I knew what the issues were. So it’s not that hard to figure out what to do when you know what the issues are, right.
And when you know what your goal is. And the goal was making oils with health in mind. Nobody’s made oils with health in mind. They always made them with shelf life in mind. And that’s why they did or profits. They made him with profits in mind. Oh yeah, shelf life or. Well, yeah, I the two were related. Yeah.
Right. Very much so. Yeah. No. And I know this so we could get these, so then the first oil that came out of it was flaxseed oil. Flaxseed oil was the first oil developed. Why? Because it has a lot of omega threes in it. And I wanted to bring the omega 3 back. And then we went on a tour in 1988.
So in a van without air conditioning, the hottest months of the year July, August, half of September, half of June through 35 states, 17,000 miles by road, 85 cities in 101 days. And we talked to anybody who would listen to us. And we went from two people to 1500 people on that tour. And we talked,
and we created a buzz because we were on fire.
Oh my God, we could help so many people. And
that was so inspiring. So we would, you know, worked all day and drove all night and did this tour. And in two years, flax oil became the second highest selling oil in the natural foods industry, which is where we were active. Right. Amazing. Then I got I became omega six deficient on flax oil, because flax oil has four times more omega three than omega six, and that ratio is too high.
And I was using only using flax , flax oil as my source of fat in the diet, because I wanted to see what would happen and I became omega six deficient. Dry eyes, skipped, heart beat, arthritis like pain in my finger joints and thin, papery skin. Classic omega six deficiency symptoms. How do you fix them? Eat sunflower seeds because they have lots of omega six, no omega three.
So brought the balance back. And then I decided, oh, we should really make a blend that is better balanced with omega three and six. And out of that came Udo’s oil, which is a blend of nine ingredients. It’s twice as rich in omega three as omega six. The Omega Sixes are also made with health in mind, because most of the omega six oils people eat are damaged.
Right. And
people these days, they talk about, oh, don’t use seed oils, don’t use omega six. I’m sure you’ve heard that there’s a lot of people going around saying that right now, including some people who live in Florida know there. I mean, there’s like people proposing legislation against, oh, I’ve seen it and I’ve put in a I’ve put in a thing in oils, you know,
that, omega six is not the problem.
Omega six is an essential nutrient. They’re blaming on omega six. And seed oil is what should be blamed on the damage done to them by the processing
or during food preparation. So they’re throwing out, turning them into trans fats, I would imagine. Well, there are all kinds of all kinds of different fragmented molecules, double blond shifted molecules.
Cyclist. Twisted trans fat, which would be the trans fatty acid, dimerized, trimerized, cross-linked molecules. So they’re all things that life never made a genetic enzymatic program to break down. Right. So what I’m saying is you’re throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You should be blaming the damage and stop damaging oils and start making oils with health in mind.
Imagine if Archer Daniels Midland started making oils with health in mind. You know, that’d be nice. That’d be very good for people because more health problems come from damaged oil than any other part of nutrition, and more health benefits will come from getting your oils made with health in mind than any other part of nutrition why? Because they’re our most sensitive molecules, they’re the most misused, they’re most damaged, and now they’re also the most lied about.
Right. And the people who say, don’t use seed oils and don’t use omega six are basically have only done half their homework. So they use these damaged oils in research. The researchers then you see negative effects, then they blame it on the oil. They should be blaming it
on the processing, on the damage done by processing in food prep.
Right, I get it. So then we may I wasn’t aware of all the products being damaged, and you made a lot of sense of it when you talked about the things that start reactions, you know, the heat,
the light, the oxygen, heat, light, oxygen. Yeah. You made a lot of sense of those things. Yeah. And so and then we fix the problem and we fix that problem over 40 years ago.
And there have been all these books that talk about damaged oils. And you shouldn’t eat them. Not one of the authors of any of those books for the last 40 years, including the ones
that are popular now, not one of those authors has ever talked to me, and I’m not hiding interesting and I’m not hiding it. You know, they, you know, I, some of them I know they know what I do, but they haven’t, pay attention to what I actually do.
They’re just making assumptions. I knew I was going to get into time trouble as soon as I started talking with you beforehand because. Yeah. Well, no. For real. So what I’m hoping to do, and
I need clarification
on just a couple things on your products. Udo’s choice. And I notice you have a link to where you can get those from udoerasmus.com
Your name .com, but it goes to a site. Flora, something what is Flora? And I see that on your products of Udo’s choice. It has the brand name Flora. What is your flora? If Flora is a company owned by a guy who is my partner, he manufactures and distributes. I do the formulation education. And I did that because
I’m more interested in education than I am in running a factory. And I decided way back then,
that,
I would work with somebody so that I could do what I do best, and he could do what he does best. And that’s how we got together.
Which is put more focus on health into a teachable field. Total health and human nature. So that’s where a lot of my energy. Yeah, I know that needs to be done. Can we can we schedule another meeting at some point? Oh, sure. I want to talk about probiotics. I want to talk about gut health
and psychology and so many more things.
Yeah. Okay.
Sounds good. All right. This is definitely been one of my
favorite podcasts. I want to thank you so much for joining me today, people. Thank you for, listening to this podcast on the Dr. Haley Show. Look above, below to the side.
Depending on what platform you’re consuming this on, I’m going to make sure that I have links to where you can get, Udo Erasmus books. Yeah. His, you know, supplements. udoschoice.com
I’m on LinkedIn and I’m on Instagram and I’m on Facebook. And if you go, on Google and you write in, Udo Erasmus, if you spell it right, I’m on the first page.
That’s the joy of having an unusual name. And if you type your name into YouTube, you YouTube unending. Right. So much content there. Thank you so much. You all right? Thank you. It’s a pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed that episode today on the Dr. Haley Show. Make sure to hit subscribe on whichever platform you are listening to this. If this episode made you think of someone, go ahead, take a screenshot and share this exact episode with them. You can catch the show notes for this episode on drhaley.com. If you want to geek out with Dr. Michael Haley on other radical health topics.
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