RESOURCES
- Buy the book “Eat, Chew, Live” on Amazon
- Visit Dr. John Poothullil’s website drjohnonhealth.com
- Visit Dr. Poothullil on YouTube
- Visit https://haleynutrition.com
- Watch this episode on YouTube
- Listen to this episode on iTunes
Dr. John Poothullil practiced medicine as a pediatrician and allergist for more than 30 years. He retired in 2008. He holds certifications from the American Board of Pediatrics, The American Board of Allergy & Immunology, and the Canadian Board of Pediatrics. Through his clinical experience and years of research, Dr. Poothullil has developed and investigated new theories to the cause of diabetes that challenges the insulin resistance theory. He has authored several books on this topic.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro Snip
00:17 Dr. Haley Show Intro
04:29 What happened to Dr. John Poothullil that made him realize he had to do research?
05:24 Can you predict when you are going to feel hungry next?
06:23 How does the brain know when it is time to be hungry?
06:37 How does the brain know how much you need to eat?
07:27 It you test your blood sugar, you have highs and lows. Where do those nutrients go?
08:03 What is the number one cause of overweight?
09:16 What three things can we observe and learn from toddlers?
11:30 How is the food here in the United States different than the food you grew up on in India?
12:50 Why is Diabetes the worst condition you could have?
14:14 What is insulin resistance and how do you measure it?
18:14 Aloe Vera commercial
19:47 Where does energy from the human body come from and what causes diabetes?
21:40 What dietary change caused the Pima Indians in Arizona get diabetes
25:42 What time of day is it OK to eat grains?
27:10 What does Dr. John Poothullil eat?
29:00 What signal should you listen to to know when you should stop eating?
30:50 What is the lesson here?
33:10 The importance of chewing your food
34:15 What really causes diabetes and why insulin resistance doesn’t make sense
40:05 When do we stop making fat cells?
42:35 What is “Authentic Body Weight”?
46:40 When can a fat person be healthy?
49:10 What are the two things that cause weight gain?
49:55 How did Dr. John Poothullil get cancer and what did he do about it?
51:55 What is cancer?
52:55 The human reproduction simplified
59:50 How does aloe vera help the body fight cancer?
1:01:20 Dr. John Poothullil’s medical approach to fighting cancer
1:04:00 How is cancer in children different than cancer in adults?
TRANSCRIPT
The two areas that contribute to weight, are your fingers and your mouth. If you can control those two, you are in control.
You are listening to the Dr. Haley Show, the podcast dedicated to helping you optimize your health. Each episode there will be an interview or a message to help you discover better health. We will be featuring health radicals on the show to bring new ideas to the table, as well as doubling down on key fundamentals to support you living your best life. Your host is no other than the founder of Haley Nutrition Dr. Michael Haley.
This is the Dr. Haley Show podcast. I’m Dr. Michael Haley your show host. Today’s guest is Dr. John Poothullil. He practiced medicine as a pediatrician and allergist for more than 30 years. He retired in 2008. He holds certifications from the American Board of Pediatrics, the American Board of Allergy and Immunology, and the Canadian Board of Pediatrics. Through his clinical experience and years of research. Dr. Poothullil has developed and investigated new theories to the cause of diabetes that challenges the insulin resistance theory. He’s authored several books on this topic. Enjoy the show.
You know, it’s funny. Any time you do a podcast like this, I know the host always says something like, I’m so excited. And usually it’s just something that they say. But I gotta say, I really am excited about this conversation. I’ve done a little bit of research and I started reading one of your books, and this is a fascinating topic that’s in front of us today.
My wife accuses me when I start on this topic. I don’t stop.
Okay, well, that’s okay with me. I’ve got a lot of time. And I was thinking about some of the things I wanted to talk about here, and I’m afraid I have too many. It’s like, oh, there’s so much good content here.
We may have to do it another one. And I’m fine with that because we both strive to educate the people that we want to help
For sure.
So we are on the same boat. you have the microphone and I’m just a guest. But you are channeling my message to the people who need to hear. Now, do most people call you Dr. Poothullil or do they call you Dr. John?
Dr. John
Dr. John is a lot easier.
Yeah.
One of the things I noticed about you in reading your book, I was trained to think differently when it comes to diagnosing, not to look at symptoms so much. Well the symptoms are important. But we don’t treat them. We look to the cause of the symptoms. And when we find the cause, we go deeper. We find the cause of the cause.
Right.
And that’s what I see in you. And it’s definitely a gift.
Yeah. Well, what can I we look at the contributing factors that are within our reach to change.
Right. So. Okay. Yeah. How did this all start for you? When did you decide you wanted to be a doctor? Where did you grow up and what led to that?
Well, during my high school days, I was always curious about things, how things happened. Rather than just learn what happened. Why did it happen? That led to the science. Science you got more opportunities. You know why, why, why why? So that is what led me to science and to the medical school and all that.
Yeah. And when you say science, because obviously there’s a difference between science and, say, research. And I think even now people are confused when it comes to research. They think, well, I went to Google and I looked up a bunch of things and they call that research. Tell me a little bit about the research you have done. I know that you’ve been a physician practicing for 30 years before you retired, so you have the clinical experience, and then you did a lot of research during that time. What did that look like for you?
Well, let me tell where I started around age 40, I noticed that I’m gaining weight. And the interesting part was I gained weight during the winter months, and in the spring I will lose it. When I reach mid 50s. I found that what I gained in the winter is not going away. So I thought I was eating the same way, exercising the same amount. Still the weight is staying. Then I said there’s something here that I don’t understand. So I went to the medical textbooks. You know, they won’t tell you, but let me back up a little bit. My first question to myself was, if I don’t eat, I don’t gain weight, right? So what is the reason for me to eat? Now, let me ask you Dr. Haley a question. Can you predict when you are going to feel hungry next?
You know I can. I don’t think everyone can.
Right. No, but you know you can. predict when you are going to be eating, but not when you feel hungry. So it is unpredictable. If so, how does the brain know when to create the sensation of hunger?
Well, yeah. But but and I think that’s where I was going, because I was going to say I can predict because I know, like, what foods are going to provide satisfaction. Not exactly. I don’t know when, exactly when, but I know that if I eat a certain way, I’m going to be hungry a lot sooner.
Exactly. Yeah.
But I don’t know when that’s going to happen.
Correct. And why does it happen? And what does the each time, the period, the space between the sensations of hunger is different. It is not the same. So how does the brain know. Okay, now is the time you should be hungry. The second question was each time you eat, you don’t eat the same volume.
Right.
So how does the brain know? This time? You only need this much. That time you need it more.
Yeah.
And? And my problem is, is I swallow before I give my brain a chance to tell me the answer.
Oh, yeah. Exactly. That is, you have observed it correctly. Now, the best example is first, when you are thirsty, you cannot predict how much water will it take to quench your thirst. Each time it is different. And by the time you finish drinking, the water is still in your stomach. It has not been absorbed yet. So how does the brain know you had enough this time when your stomach is capable of holding even more. The third question was if you take your blood and test your blood sugar, cholesterol or triglyceride four hours after a meal let’s say supper, it will be high. By next morning, it is all back to normal. So where did those nutrients go? So I could not find the answers in medical textbooks, so I came out with my own answers. That is what I published in my first book, eat, chew, Live.
And that’s the one I’m reading now. I’m only in chapter six. It’s fascinating.
Right? The number one cause of overweight is, as you mentioned, you eat too fast. You are not enjoying what you eat. In order to do that, you have to chew the food. So that is why I put the emphasis on Chew as the middle title. All you have to do is I… I observed people eating many, many people. So that is what I started.
You know, I remember Jordan Rubin from The Garden of Life. He said, chew your food 50 times before you swallow. Now, if you make it to 50, there’s nothing to swallow. It kind of all disappears. But you’re really getting that digestion going. You’re releasing a lot of the nutrients. you’re preparing the food for your microbiome to properly consume it and do the rest of the work. It makes complete sense. But why don’t we do it?
The best example is all you have to do is to observe a toddler 2 to 6 years of age. You can observe three things. One, they will eat only when they are hungry. Plenty of food in the house, but they won’t eat. Second, if grandma makes ten different items, the toddler may choose 2 or 3, what the toddler likes. Next time Grandma may make the same thing more because my baby liked it, but the child won’t even touch it. They pick and choose what they want, and when they are done, they could care less how much is left on the plate. They would go out and play. And remember, we all had the same faculty between age two and six.
It’s interesting because, yeah, our parents used to tell us, finish what’s on your plate, right. And if we would have done it naturally, they wouldn’t have had to say that. Right?
Well, what happens is, you know, that was only after age six. it wont work before that because that is when they start listening to their parents or obeying the parents and then starts the problem. Let me tell you this story. I was counseling ten adults, during my practice of how to lose weight. So I told them I grew up in India and some days I didn’t feel hungry. And now I know why. They said why? Because you were all eating for me. For the starving children in India and China. Right. But finish what is on your plate. There are children starving. There. So I told them, you don’t have to do that anymore.
And some. Yeah. And somehow finishing it somehow we saved all the starving people. I don’t know how that woks.
Yep
Now, what kind of foods did you grow up on in India?
Well, we eat everything.
You’re in Oregon now. So you’ve been in the United States for how long?
I came in 1970.
Okay. It was the food different when you got here?
oh yes! Well, we eat in India a lot of vegetables. And we ate in my household. We ate everything. Fish, meat. even though 85% of the people in India are vegetarians, our state was a non vegetarian state. A costal state. We have plenty of fish and you know fowl and everything. So I grew up eating everything. The main thing is we use a lot of spices.
Which is good.
Yes. Excellent. When I from India, I went to Scotland to do a year of training and I could not eat the food there because they’re all bland. And if you put even pepper on the food, they will tell you, you are destroying the taste of the meat. So I had a hard time adjusting, but and at that time when I first came, I could not eat and enjoy a McDonald’s or that or a hamburger because that’s not is not spicy.
right?
Yeah, sure. Anyway. sure. Well, that may have saved you. You know, that may have been a good thing, actually. now let’s talk about diabetes.
Okay.
And before talking about that though, I want people to understand why this is so important. You know we learn about alcohol and cigarettes as being like gateway drugs. You know, if you do, if you use these, you’re more likely to use things that are more harmful. Diabetes is sort of a gateway disease. If you get diabetes, you’re a lot more likely to have all these other problems.
Yes.
It’s probably the cause of a lot of other diseases. It’s probably the one that we should pay the most attention to and avoid the most. With that. What is it and what’s causing it?
Okay. You are asked a very fundamental question that most people don’t understand. They are not allowed to understand. Everybody has heard the term insulin resistance right? Have you ever heard of a test to measure insulin resistance?
I am not aware of them. I know that they measure sugar levels. I don’t even know what A1C is what that measurement is.
Okay. There is no test for measuring insulin resistance. Why? Because it does not exist. It is an explanation. It is not an actual measurement. It’s a theory. It is a concept. Yes. to explain the findings. But you are treated. You are being treated for a hypothesis or based on a hypothesis.
Right.
So there it starts, the first problem, if you look at the NIH website, it will show you that type two I’m talking about type two diabetes okay Not type one. Type one is real. In type two it would say on NIH website you would say type two diabetes starts when three cells: the liver the muscle and the fat tissue stop responding to insulin. Okay? So I send them a letter. What is the evidence. How do you prove it? So what they are saying is if I want to challenge it, I have to disprove it.
They didn’t have to prove it to use it.
No. because it’s already there.
Oh, boy. And you know, this is the NIH. That’s the national Institutes of Health, supposed to be founded on research and evidenced science.
Right?
Yeah.
So that is what. So how can people know? So now the gadget manufacturers and insulin producing companies, they support it so much. If you look at the advertisements for medications or the gadgets it would say it will bring your A1C below seven. What it will not say is will that lead to reduced complications. There’s no connection between complication. Oh we will bring their blood sugar down. We have done our job.
I see the commercials too. And they’re dancing. They’re celebrating. They lowered their A1C it’s a good time. It’s a party. But yeah it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a health benefit.
No. In fact, my publisher’s relative, He was a diabetic, and we begged him, you know, not to fall for this, but he said, oh, my doctor said my A1C is good. I’m on insulin. Everything under control. Now he’s on dialysis. Both his kidneys functions are gone. And my own friend who has a PhD in organic chemistry, he’s one of the original ones who developed the dry powder, the Xerox powder copy machine. He was taking when I met him, 120 units of insulin to keep his A1C below seven. He was so religiously keeping A1C and he lost three toes. He had two different cancers and he passed away. So he but he kept his A1C below seven very religiously for 20 years.
Yeah. And that’s that’s kind of what I meant by a gateway disease because so many other complications follow. You know the being overweight and inflamed and you know having circulatory problems and your vision goes and the diabetic neuropathy.
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So we are controlling a symptom. When you have a pneumonia you have fever. If you take Tylenol or aspirin you can bring your fever down. But that does not control the infection. Here you are led to believe that if you control the sugar, you are controlling the medical problem, which is totally different.
Yeah.
You are only controlling a symptom and that is the message people are not getting.
Yeah, I don’t want to lose people on this. So let’s try to bridge over into what’s actually causing it. In other words, we can burn different kinds of fuel. There’s macronutrients fat, protein and carbohydrates. And we all think of our energy coming from sugars, which it does, and glycogen. But people are into these, you know, high fat, high protein diets where they’re burning something else for fuel. And our bodies will do that. They will burn fats and proteins and live for a good period of time without carbohydrates and starches. So what you’re finding is that people that are having diabetic symptoms are actually switched. They will have switched their muscles, for instance, will have switched to burning fatty acids rather than sugars. Is that correct?
Yes. Let me let let’s go back and explain that. That’s an excellent question. That is what people need to understand. Let me put it in two different ways. The Native Americans in the year 1900, when they were brought to the reservation, they had a complete medical examination. And they had practically no type two diabetes, none. So the doctors wondered why, but they could not find an answer. Now, if you look at the Native Americans in reservations, for example, the Pima Indians in Arizona, 50% of the adults over age 35 will have pre-diabetes or diabetes, 50%. And the general population is also is going in the same direction in about ten, another ten years. 50% of us adults will be diabetic. Why did they not have diabetes in the native habitat? You know why? they moved from one food source to another? They ate everything vegetables, fruits, nuts, fish, animals. But they did not eat one thing. They never stayed in one place to cultivate grains oh grains.
Okay.
They did not cultivate wheat, rice, or corn. They ate wild corn. So they did not eat any of those. But in the reservation, what did they get? All bread, free of charge. As much as you want. Wheat and corn products.
Is it the grains, or is it the availability of it?
Every all grain farming is subsidized. That is the cheapest food available. So you know the people in the lower economic status are on the feeding programs all subsidized. Or. We use grain based food that is the cheapest.
Sure. Yeah.
100 years ago, the percentage of food energy each person consumed from grains was less or complex. Carbohydrate was less than 35%. Now it is 50% in developed countries and 70% in developing countries.
Okay. Okay. And I want a little bit of a clarification here then. Is it the grains or the quantity of grains? In other words, are grains evil. Do you consume any grains in your diet or are you 100% out on the grains?
You know. It is the quantity. Okay. If we can keep the complex carbohydrate from grains or any other source to less than 35% of your total daily energy in food energy intake, you are fine.
Oh, that’s easy. That’s easy
That’s all you have to do. But you may think it is easy, but when is the last time you had a meal or a snack without a grain product?
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and for me, you know, I mean, today, you know, I had my I did have my coffee with my organic coffee, that is with my little bit of vegan protein and coconut milk. Yeah. And then from there I had a baked potato that I baked the day before. And I ate it like an apple. That was my breakfast.
Yeah.
And I had some. I did have some quinoa today. I had quinoa with carrots. Is quinoa grain?
quinoa is a seed. It is not actually a grain, but it is much better than the rice or wheat or corn flour products.
Okay. So I’m kind of crossing over into that area already. Yeah. Because I’m thinking for me, you know, most Americans, you know, we’ve been taught that you have to, start with cereal and have the breakfast of champions, which is grain. And that’s the first thing you eat. And if you don’t, you know, we don’t do cereal. It’s, well, eggs and toast, which is wheat. And, you know, lunch comes on a sandwich, which is some stuff in between. And there’s literally wheat all day long. So I do understand where you’re coming from.
Yeah. But all morning I can understand because what is the organ that is most active during the night? Your heart is slowing down, your muscles are relaxed. Your kidney, the organ that is still active is the brain. And the brain uses glucose. So to replace that in the morning with some grain based food. Perfectly fine. The rest of the day you don’t need it.
Okay.
You can eat some snack, a cookie or even a piece of cake later on which is fine as long as you don’t eat your grain based for pudding Lunch and supper.
That’s all I’m asking.
All right. My audience is not allowed to eat cookies. Okay. They are, they are. But they got to be few and far between. no, The reality is like. And I can say for myself, I haven’t had a cookie in probably at least a year. Yeah. But, you know, treats are allowed here and there, but very carefully Cautiously.
Yeah. So this way. What I’m suggesting is if you don’t eat the grain based foods for lunch and dinner, then you have a space for some snack or cookies if you want to.
No, I understand. I understand. What’s your diet like? What do you have today?
I had in the morning, two tablespoons of the oatmeal with, some No, pecan nuts and A tablespoon of raisins You put it in half and half, boil it and warm like a porridge.
Yeah. Okay. Not steel cut or a rolled oats?
The original. Okay. Okay. Because, you know, we can have oats in their oat groat form, which is like eating it, almost like rice, which is delicious. I like them when they’re cut like steel cut, which, you know, has a nice little, texture to it. And the rolled oats are kind of flattened out, and I don’t like them as much. A little soggy, but oats are one of those grains that, you know, you’re kind of getting the whole shell. It’s not just the endosperm like you’re getting when you’re eating breads that have been super processed. And with all of that extra fiber, you’re not having the sugar spike that you would from eating bread. And it’s more like a time-released,
right
Glucose that your body can use. So I like that option. That’s a good choice.
So again, it is not the type of food it is for quantity. How much do you eat. And it’s interesting if when you drink you don’t drink When you are thirsty you are drinking. You don’t drink until your stomach feels full. You stop drinking when that thirst is quenched. But when you eat. Many people wait for the fullness of the stomach rather than reduction in the degree of enjoyment. There’s a big difference.
That that is a big difference because I thought you were going to talk about satisfaction or when did the hunger go away Right. Really it’s the reduction of the enjoyment.
when you are hungry that first bite you take. It tastes so good. Oh, yeah. After about five minutes, the intensity of enjoyment is not as much.
You know, there’s, something that was written in the scriptures and it said the satisfied soul loathes the honeycomb. But to one who is starving, even that which is bitter seems sweet.
Exactly.
Yeah. But there’s comes a point in time when. When I’m satisfied. I don’t need any more. I don’t really enjoy it the way I was. When I’m starving, everything looks good. Don’t go grocery shopping. Starving.
Exactly. Exactly. You got the point. So. But nowadays, we are so busy doing other things. Eating is just something we do because we have to do something else. You are not taking time to sit down and enjoy your meal. Okay. Think about this enjoyment of food or eating is one thing that you can do from the moment you are born until you die. Multiple times a day. There’s no other enjoyment you can enjoy multiple times a day with the same intensity. Every day of your life.
Yeah. So the word is to the people. Enjoy your food. Slow down. Taste it. Experience the texture and truly enjoy it. And know at what point that enjoyment decreases.
Yeah, I put it a slightly different way.
Okay.
We all enjoy eating, but we don’t enjoy what we eat.
I like that that is well said.
So that’s all you have to do. You are eating anyway. Why don’t you enjoy. If you ask somebody how much of one bite of sandwich will they enjoy. They will say 100%. But then I will get this example. If you put one potato chip on your tongue, you will enjoy it. If you stack ten. Which one do you enjoy? Only the one at the bottom. But you are consuming all of it without enjoying.
Yeah. If someone made you a special soup when you have that spoonful, can you tell them what was in it? Do you even know? Before you swallow it, you just swallow. What do you taste? What are the flavors?
So I tell people give your spoon or fork a Rest. Because most people, you are constantly going. Yeah, yeah. When somebody is not on food in the mouth, but on the next bite that you are going to eat.
Don’t tell me to give my spoon a rest when I’m eating soup, because I’ll just pick up the bowl.
Yeah. Yeah. That. I didn’t think of that one.
But, you know, when I eat, I’m guilty. I like to eat, and I like to, you know, literally shove it down. And I’m not experiencing the joy of the flavors of the food. I’m.
Yes. It just go over your taste buds. How can you enjoy it unless it comes in contact with, that Is were the chewing comes in. The more you chew, the more nutrients are released into your mouth. The more are register and the more you enjoy.
Now, how does not doing these things eventually lead to diabetes?
Okay. Very good. The first thing is, what is your point of meal termination? What makes you stop eating? If you concentrate on the enjoyment part, as the enjoyment decreases, you stop. If you don’t do that, then the next thing is the fullness of the stomach. That means you’re already taken in more than what your body need at that time. And that has to be stored. In four hours your digestion is complete. All the nutrients are absorbed in the next four hours, the pancreas will release insulin. And now let’s go back a little bit. Every cell uses glucose to produce energy. But when glucose is outside, the cell does not know it is outside. For example, if somebody comes to your home, your apartment or your home, you know there is somebody outside when they ring the doorbell or knock on the door. Glucose cannot ring the doorbell. It is insulin that ring the doorbell. So insulin comes with glucose. Ring the doorbell for the cell. A message is sent to the control center. Glucose is outside. Then the nucleus has to decide whether they need it or not. If the nucleus decides the cell can use glucose, it will send the wagon to the door. Open the door. Fill up the wagon with glucose and bring that in.
I got you. I know where this is going.
That. Yeah. Now, if the cell does not need it. Because the cell can use either glucose or fatty acid to produce energy. If the cell is already Using fatty acid to produce energy. It does not need glucose. So it will not open the door even after insulin is ringing. So glucose stays in the blood. And what?
People have already come through the door. The house is full. We’re at capacity. We can’t have any more. That’s what happened in, you know, any event they’re in capacity.
There you go.
We can’t fit any more people in here. This is our capacity.
Exactly. Essentially what the cell’s doing with the glucose. Right. Do you put it very right.
Exactly.
So what do the diabetic analogies call that?
What do they call it? They call it, that that’s the. Okay, this is where they got that word from thinking. Well, that must be the insulin. We’re not. We’re just not sensitive to it anymore. Something happened here.
right. They say that the Cell is not responding to insulin. It is resisting the message of insulin. But the reality is, is no, the the knock on the door is there. There’s just no room inside the house.
They don’t need it. It is like, I suppose you had a good meal. And let me ask you this. What is your favorite meal? Food.
Oh, just give me one.
Well, you know, pizza is like the gold standard of a favorite food.
Okay.
I love pizza.
Okay, suppose you already had a nice meal, and then I bring in a big piece of pizza, and you say you don’t want it right now. Are you resisting feeding?
Well, I I’m I’m delaying it.
Yeah,
but I know letting it.
Exactly. That is what is happening when the blood glucose goes up. Because the cells are not responding to insulin, because the cell function is not affected. When you are diagnosed with type two diabetes, your muscles still work. Your liver still works. Your fat cells are still loading fat. There’s no functional defect. So what does it mean by insulin resistance?
Yeah, it means that’s a term we all come to believe because we heard it so many times, which is what happens in a lot of spaces today. We hear it enough times. We actually believe it to be true. And there’s a good chance that it never was.
As long as you keep talking long and loud for long enough time, people will believe it.
Right.
So that is what has happened there. That is why there is no test to measure insulin resistance. Now, even more interesting is if you are resistant to an antibiotic, the doctor will not give you the same antibiotic. Here you are, on the one hand, you are told you are a type two diabetic because your body’s resisting insulin and say, oh, by the way, here is a script for insulin for you. How does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. So when they take the insulin, what are the results?
The blood sugar goes down. That’s the only result. It does not improve the muscle function. It does not improve the liver function. You still get fat. The one of the first thing you notice when you start in certain is you gain weight. So what? But the blood sugar goes down. Where did that sugar go?
That’s what I want to know.
It does not go out of the body. Insulin forces the liver to convert that glucose into fat. Okay, so if you measure your blood sugar, it is down. So the endocrinologist have done their job. But you know what they tell you? You did not lose weight. That is why you have problem. On the one hand, you are told to lose weight, and then you are given a medication that makes you fat.
Right? Right. Yeah. I’m having a little bit of a problem, though. I’m not quite making the full connection because I’m wondering why the person’s own insulin didn’t do that. Didn’t make the sugar leave the blood and go into the fat cell. Yeah.
Excellent question. Or why didn’t we create new fat cells? The body can create new fat cells until you are about mid 20s. After that, the number of fat cells remain the same. You can fill it empty it. Fill it, empty it. You cannot produce new fat cells. So if you are a child or growing during the growth period, you will get new fat cells. After that, it is done the number, but the quantity of fat that each fat cell can put in is genetically determined. And that starts from the womb. Depending on how well the mother was fed. If the mother did not get enough excess food, the baby may not have a large number of fat cells or the amount the volume capacity of the fat cell will also be small and baby will be lean. Whereas if the mother got a lot of food, the baby will become plump. A lot of fat cells. for example, in a household there may be one child who is heavy and look fatty, and another child who may be lean. Same household. Now which child is likely to develop type two diabetes earlier.
Well that would probably be me. I’m thinking it’s funny. I’m thinking of my own family because my mother ate more for me because she was told to do that. And in my family, I happened to be born the biggest of the okay, four of us.
You can look at it different way. Suppose you have two refrigerators, one holds ten cubic feet and the other 20 if you buy, go to the grocery store, buy the same amount of food The ten will get filled up earlier, but 20 still have more room. So you have inherited a larger capacity to store fat. The excess food the liver will convert into fat and store it. what stay in the blood is what gives you trouble, not what is stored outside the blood.
Got it.
You may look cosmetically overweight, but medically you are not.
Okay. So this kind of gets into like the set point then where are you know my body is made to be a certain weight
right.
How do we know what that is. Excellent question. A very simple test. First of all your ideal what I call the authentic body weight. In this one is what you reach in our mid 20s y mid 20s. You have reached the maximum height and your bone density is maximum provided your blood sugar, fasting blood sugar, fasting triglyceride, fasting LDL as normal. So any time if those three fasting blood tests levels sugar, triglyceride and LDL cholesterol, if they are normal, that is your authentic weight.
Okay, I am definitely not at my authentic weight. All right. How do I get back to it?
Okay. Just like we mentioned earlier, you have your grain based foods only for morning and snacks. Don’t eat any grain based foods for lunch or dinner. That’s all you have to do.
Now, if I’m doing those things and I’m obeying my… my satiety. Yeah, okay. Paying attention. And I’m enjoying the food and recognizing when I’m not enjoying it as much anymore. and probably It’s time to. You know, I slowed down and I’ve only consumed what seems right. Okay. Will my body be, you know, using the fat and burning it to get me back to that? Or do I have to actually go into a period of starving myself and intentionally disobeying hunger?
Well, what is your fast? Is your fasting blood sugar about normal or within normal range? Well, I haven’t tested anything ever. I’m one of those people that haven’t been to a doctor in years. Yeah. What’s that? I have no idea what my blood is.
That is the only way to know. Because don’t go by weight tables or BMI charts. They will not tell you, your medical obesity or medical health status. Because if you have a lot of fat but it is outside the blood, how can it bother you?
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So a lot of fat, but it’s outside the blood because is inside the cells. How can it bother you? Okay.
Well, you know, you have a storage area. If your storage area full or empty, it doesn’t matter. It is when the storage area is full, then it stays in the blood. That is what gives you trouble. For example, in diabetics, you give insulin. Insulin forces the liver to convert the glucose into fat, and it is the fat that blocks the arteries going to the leg going to the nerve cells or nerves and producing neuritis. Going to the kidneys produce kidney problem, heart attack, stroke. They are all come from fat, not from glucose, okay. From stored fat or from fat in foods?
fat circulating in the blood
regardless of whether you ate it or it was coming out of your cells.
If you are a lean person, you have got 10 pound fat storage capacity. So if you gained 15 pounds, you are in trouble. If you are an obese person or inherited 100 pounds of fat storage capacity and you gain 50 pounds, nothing, everything is stored away. It cannot bother the blood.
Dr. John, are there healthy fats? Because a lot of people throw that around and they say, you know, avocado is a healthy fat and coconut oil and ghee and these are healthy fats. Is that is there a distinction or is fat fat?
Well, though they are labels of what goes into the body. But what happens, what makes the difference is what happens in the body with any of these raw materials that is based on your genetic, inheritance. So you when there is excess, the liver has three production lines. One line is for glucose. It goes straight into the blood. The second line is excess glucose converted into triglyceride, which is fat that we store. The third line goes to the cholesterol manufacturing line. Either LDL or HDL come out. So depending on your genetic inheritance, each person will have a different value set in the blood. So it’s based on how much fat storage capacity you have. What is a line? What production line is active and how much you put in your mouth? the two areas that contribute to weight, are your fingers and your mouth. If you can control those two, you are in control.
The further you keep your fingers from the mouth, the better, right? But again, you know, I could probably eat with my hands behind my back. I’d figure out a way.
So What happened to your health? You had a health challenge and actually had a cancer diagnosis at some point. Yes. Yeah. How did that happen? And what did you do about it? Well, that is a topic that may take another hour, but I’ll give you a summary.
One of the blood tests I was called. My doctor called and said, look John you have a problem? I said, what you need to see an oncologist. I didn’t feel anything bad. I said, why? Because your blood test shows there is cancer. And my life. Stop right there. Luckily, I was in the bedroom. I could sit on the bed and I told my wife. this is a big problem. So I did, and I, I had further tests which confirmed it. And I asked the oncologist, why did it happen? And he said, check the American Cancer Society website. So I went there and they said improper diet and lack of exercise. So I went to India to visit my medical school. And when I was in training, there was no cancer hospital in that area. When I went back, I found two eight story buildings, one for cancer for adults and another for children’s cancer. So I asked the oncologist why and his answer was improper diet and lack of exercise. I contacted somebody in Europe, an oncologist, and he said improper diet and lack of exercise. The same in South America, same in Africa. How can diet be improper and lack of exercise everywhere in the world for to explain increasing incidence of cancer? That did not make sense to me. So then I went back and looked at what is cancer? Cancer is uncontrolled multiplication of a cell. Every cancer starts with one stem cell. Stem cell is the mother cell that keep producing baby cells. That is cancer. There is no functional arrangement. It is just production number, not function. So how do we understand cancer? In order to understand cancer, we need to have an example of control. The multiplication. Okay. Can you give me an example of a controlled multiplication of a cell.
Well, we’re doing it every day. Without thinking about it, our body is replacing damaged tissues as necessary.
Exactly. Exactly. But there is an even better example that I use when you look at in a mirror, you are seeing an excellent example of controlled multiplication, because each one of us is the product of one stem cell, the zygote which was formed after the Fertilization of the ovum with the sperm. Right.
Amazing, right?
That fertilization does not take place in the womb. It takes place in the fallopian tube as the ovum is rolling down. After the fertilization, it takes a six day journey for the ovum to come to the womb to be implanted. Do you know how many cells are there at that time? In that zygote?
I’m going to guess in six days. Too many to count.
200 cells. Do you know why? 200. Each one of them will become a stem cell for our different organs and systems in the body.
Okay.
How did the zygote know to divide and divide to exactly 200 or around that number before implantation. Where did it get the knowledge from? And look at. We have two kidneys, both about the same size. And each one come from a stem cell. And they stop dividing when the shape and size is ideal. How does it happen? And suppose that control mechanism is damaged. You’ll keep on multiplying. And that is cancer.
So with that definition why did that happen?
Oh that’s right. Very good. Excellent. That is why I wanted to find out. So every cell it divides on demand when the stem cells get okay. When you get a cut, as you said earlier, the healing the cell that is suddenly exposed will send a message to the stem cell. My neighbor is missing. And the stem cell has two genes. One to activate cell division to produce baby cells, and another gene to stop the work. So there is a work activating gene and work stoppage gene. Okay. And so when the new cells meet each other, a message will be sent to the stem cell. Neighbor is back. We don’t need anymore. And the growth inhibiting gene will issue a work order stop.
But sometimes that gene’s on vacation.
Well, in a way, if every gene has two copies, one from the father, one from the mother. If one gene is mutated, either because of radiation, infection, chemicals, whatever, then the other gene will take over. But if both genes are mutated once the other gene orders the production, there’s nobody to issue a stop work order.
How do you fix those genes?
That is what the gene therapies are coming in right now. They are looking at the signaling molecule from the gene. And that is what is the important work of cancer treatment. Right now the gene based.
So what did you do about your cancer.
Well I took the chemotherapy. I luckily, you know, the doctor said you have 85% chance of responding. But what you don’t know is whether you belong to the 85 or the 15.
Right.
So luckily, I am 85. So. And now, after five years after the treatment, the doctor would say you are a cancer survivor. What does that mean? That does not mean you don’t have any cancer cells in the body. All that means is with the available test, we cannot detect the cancer cell. They are still hiding in my body. So every cancer cell. Now, let me back up a little bit. Why are we afraid of cancer? Tell me why.
Well, we’re afraid because we assume that it’s going to kill us.
Exactly. How does cancer kill you? Does not produce any toxins. It does not go and invade the neighboring cells and destroy them like a bacteria. So what causes death in cancer?
Yeah. Something that is. Well, sometimes it. Sometimes it could be the cancer. You know, in other words, the a lung cancer opens up the lung and in the lung doesn’t work anymore.
No, no, just one second. If the lung cancer is confined to one area, there’s plenty of lung left to function. So why should it kill?
All right. So what then? What ends up killing in the case of cancer?
Let me give you a different example. If the cancer that kills or affects adult men, the number one cancer is prostate cancer. If you take 100 people with prostate cancer, only one third will die because of the cancer.
Right.
Another third will know that they have cancer. But it won’t bother them. Except maybe some urinary obstruction. A third won’t even know they have it. It will. They will die of something else. Then during autopsy, you find out they have cancer. So what is the difference between the first third that die and the other two thirds.
Do they have a say which third they’re in?
What is the difference in. Why do they die. The first third. Well I’ve, I’ve asked that same question. But I think personally I think we have some say in it because I think as we, you know, affect our diet as an example. Right. Certain nutrients definitely have impact and affect certain things. You might not know this. I have an aloe vera company. So I’m going to talk about aloe because I know about aloe vera. What we know about it is it can increase tumor necrosis factor. Interferons and interleukins. We know that there’s a certain sugar molecule in aloe vera called mannose. And when a cancer cell tries to eat the mannose, it kind of binds to it but can’t actually consume it. And it ends up starving that particular cancer cell. Meanwhile, while that cancer cells holding on to the mannose, it’s kind of raising a flag saying, hey, macrophage, come get me. So we have some say in the foods that we consume, and we know that certain foods are going to do more harm, like sugar. And certain foods are, you know, like herbs and spices have anti-cancer properties and benefits and immune stimulating. And that’s kind of what I was wondering that about you. What did you do? Because you did the medical approach, which I’m not opposed to. You did the research and you found out 85%. That’s pretty good. But I’m wondering if you also said, but what can I do on my own from a complementary and alternative perspective?
Absolutely. So let me back up a little bit. Why did the one third why do one third of the prostate cancer people die? If your cancer is confined to one location, your body can handle it just like any other organ. But when it starts having colonies or metastases, what happens is those cells grab on to the nutrients that normal cells need to survive. So they literally starve the cells in vital organs. And that is how we die. So the number one thing is to confine the cancer to one area, preferably by reducing the number of cancer cells that can rob us of nutrients. And that is where the treatment comes in. Kill as many as you have as you can, then prevent the rest from multiplying. And the second part is where the food or the dietary intervention come, come in comes. The cancer cells use exactly the same nutrients as regular cell to divide. They need energy. They need raw material. They need the proteins. they take it from the regular food. But there’s a difference. Our normal cells can produce energy from both fat and glucose. Cancer cells almost invariably look to get glucose for energy to produce energy. And you use the term sugar. Most of the blood sugar, which is glucose, come not from the table sugar that we eat, but from the grains. So if you want to control the sugar availability of cancer cells, cut down on your grains. And that is what I did. Okay. That’s why I don’t use any grain based products for lunch or dinner. Only for breakfast. And sometimes for cookies and dessert.
I like it.
yeah. And I mean, you know, like this for the last 14 years now. Now you’ve also written a book about, children that have cancer.
Yes.
How is that different? And why was it a separate book?
Very interesting question. Usually the average age of an adult with cancer is 60. Reason is it takes accumulation of mutations. Remember we talked about the two genes to mutate the gene enough to make a difference and end up in cancer. You have to keep on adding mutations, and it takes about six decades. But the average age of a child with cancer is six. The child has not lived long enough. to, you know, accumulate mutations. So why should a child have cancer?
Well, no one should have cancer. But
no no, no, no.
But why do they get it?
We will have every in every human being. A cancer cell is formed almost every ten years.
True.
That’s normal. Let me back up a little bit. Do you know when you have the maximum number of pre-cancerous cells in your body?
Probably at birth.
Before birth. Are very good. You are the only one who has told me that.
Well, because they’re less differentiated, they’re not.
Not only that, the people who produce the new cells, the enzymes, they are all novices. They have never done it before. So if you get a bunch of people from the street to construct a home, they are going to make mistakes. So every newborn in their body, as they are being formed, there’s so many mutations. But nature is aware of that. Nature has put the immune system to hunt. There is a group of white cells called natural killer cells. They hunt down cancerous cells and destroy them. 99% of the pre-cancerous cells are destroyed before the baby is born. But some do survive. Mutated cells. And some of them become stem cells. And if they get an activation order, you will have cancer in a child. Or the stem cell that the child had can get mutated because of radiation or infection or something like that. And then they produce the same result.
Got it. Got it. Now, does that book have a happy ending? Is there hope for the child with cancer?
Again, if you detect early nowadays there are so many treatments coming up. Childhood leukemia is practically now under control. They can control it and lymphoma. Leukemia. Those are the two common. The main problem is the brain cancer, the Glioblastoma and things like that that still have to work on it.
Yeah. Yeah. Now, before we cancel what did I leave out that we should have talked about?
Well, that there is in medical field, the average science knowledge of an individual is about 6 to 8 grade level. The medical field has advanced so much. There is a gap between the average knowledge and the scientific knowledge. That gap is getting filled by information spread in the social media. So how to filter out? It is so difficult now into that mix is add AI generated information.
Yeah
it’s almost impossible for the average person to understand which is right, which is wrong. That is where I admire people like you. You take the time to understand and educate, and I hope more people will listen to people like you rather than this very difficult.
Thank you. Thank you. What faith did you grow up in?
I’m sorry?.
What faith or religion did you grow up in?
In the Christian faith.
Christian faith. Yeah. Okay. Because we have this knowledge in us, the life that’s in us that did what you said earlier when two cells came together and divided into 200 by a specific point in time. And we don’t know how to do that. It just happens by this wonderful knowledge, this wonderful power, the knowledge of God
right
in us.
Yes.
Doing all of these things. And I think that when we’re trying to use the the God filter, when it comes to what we, you know, learn from Google and it’s AI generated, there’s a filter, put it through the filter. Does this seem right? Does this seem real? If not, let me investigate a little bit further because we are being programed and AI is a very scary thing. And I it’s terrifying because people are going to take it hook, line and sinker and they’re going to believe what they read and see. But, you know, we have the knowledge in us will tell you if something’s wrong. You just gotta listen to it. Kind of like paying attention to our hunger.
Yeah, yeah. This said the problem comes for an average person. Our environment shapes our initial beliefs and disbeliefs so we can, you know, if you look at every faith and every religion, they will all agree on one thing. There’s only one creator that everyone. Yeah, but each religion has a separate way of reaching the creator. And each one will say mine is the not only the right way, the only way. So that is human created. The creator did not create multiple ways. So how do we choose which one is the right one? That our environment, our upbringing, has to do with it? Yeah. So how do we know how to pay attention or what to pay? Now, as you said, the AI is going to make it even more complicated.
Yeah, yeah. But I, I was curious because I know there’s a lot of different religions in India. And, you know, when I meet people and, you know,you’re just a joy and a pleasure and stuff, I like to know, you know, what is behind that. And it’s nice. It’s refreshing. So great energy. Absolutely wonderful energy. You’re doing a good work.
You know, our environment shapes our thinking. And some people go out of that and make their own decisions, their own thinking, their own knowledge, their own interpretation. And those who can do that without hurting others. That is what we need to do. Yeah, we don’t know actually why we are here. So we have a right to enjoy our existence here without hurting others. That’s the way I look at it.
Yeah, it’s a good word. It’s like the health freedom with responsibility, I like it.
Exactly. Yeah, you put it nicely.
Good stuff. What’s your, best place to find your books? I know your website is drjohnonhealth.com And you have other websites, too.
Well, everything will go to the drjohnonhealth.com on health.
All right. And I’ll make sure on the video this is going to be below your beautiful picture there for the whole video. So don’t worry about that. But we’ll also have links below the video in the description. We’ll have links on the podcast, everywhere that you find this content. There’s going to be links to Dr. John’s website and some of your social media. I see you’re very active on social media. So good stuff. Dr. John, thank you so much for enlightening us today.
Dr. Haley, I thank you for having me. And again, I thank you for your interest in educating your followers and I wish them well. I tell people, take charge of your health. It is your responsibility. You should ask questions and make your own decision as to what is best for you and people around you.
Beautiful. well said. Dr. John, blessings to you.
Same to you. Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed that episode today on the Doctor Haley Show. Make sure to hit subscribe on whichever platform you are listening to this. If this episode made you think of someone, go ahead, take a screenshot and share this exact episode with them. You can catch the show notes for this episode on www.drhaley.com If you want to geek out with Dr. Michael Haley on other radical health topics be sure to check out his YouTube channel where he posts exclusive video content. All the details are at www.drhaley.com and we can’t wait to hang out with you on the next episode.
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